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While I agree that suicide is generally a shitty thing, I think that the one-two punch of the 'where do we draw the line?' argument plus the nazi reference does more to hurt an argument than it does to help it. Also, the idea of 'allowing' suicide sounds sort of laughable to me. If someone's head is fucked enough that they want to end their life, I don't think that the idea of it being 'allowed' will be a key component of that person's final decision.
Diversion tactic. I read your post and know what you said regarding health problems.Quote:
Originally posted by Azoryn
Perhaps when you take the time to read my post, Alydar, I'll take time to respond to yours.
I respect your views regarding suicide. I have to contend though your reasoning with medication. You said that medication CAN help people. It certainly does so for a lot of people. But there are always some people who feel no better, and in some cases even worse. And taking time to find the right combination of drugs to cure people? You're talking about a lot of time and money on something that even isn't an exact science. Let's face it, some people won't feel any better with whatever combination of drugs there are.Quote:
Originally posted by Marah
I find it odd that you list severe depression along with the above. People who are severely depressed suffer from a skewed vision of life, due mainly to a chemical imbalance. Medication CAN and WILL help these people -- and yes, it may take time to find the right combinations. It may take a lot of time, but quality of life can be improved, unlike a person with terminal cancer or a chronic, presumably-untreatable illnesss. And since someone who is severely depressed will be more likely to commit suicide, are you saying that it's right, even with the understanding that they can get better?
I'm not saying suicide is right or wrong. The post you quoted me from above was a little heated reply to Jarkis and Azoryn for having the gall to call people who commit suicide cowards. I just wish they would consider the things people go through before they finally make the decision to commit suicide. They make it sound like suicide is some snap judgement people reach when something goes wrong for them.
So if this was a planned suicide and not a snap decision, then he was a selfish egomaniacal fucktard, not a coward.
Shoving a gun in your mouth and pulling the trigger whilst on the phone to your wife is just plain stupid, but doing it in a room next to a six year old is sheer idiocy. When that kid grows up with little to no respect for life, will people wonder why?
I don't care if the person making the decision to commit suicide does so on a whim, or carefully plans it. He/she is a coward.Quote:
Originally posted by Alydar
I'm not saying suicide is right or wrong. The post you quoted me from above was a little heated reply to Jarkis and Azoryn for having the gall to call people who commit suicide cowards. I just wish they would consider the things people go through before they finally make the decision to commit suicide. They make it sound like suicide is some snap judgement people reach when something goes wrong for them.
With EVERY example you've listed (Excepting the terminally ill) there are people who have had it, overcome it, and live happy lives DESPITE it.
A man's life is his own to end, no law will ever stop that. But society should always regard suicide with the utmost disdain. People should always be encourage to try, try, and try again to live a happy life. Because it IS possible, no matter -what's- going on.
Being easy on suicide, or even acting like it's a viable solution is dangerous. It only creates unnecessary death and suffering.
Obviously he didn't plan for Threshold to be tossing the matter of his suicide back and forth. But wasn't the idea of him topping himself to cause a ripple?
I see it as a poor means of getting the last word, and like Azoryn and Haigen, weak and stupid respectively.
And this is before we bring into consideration religious beliefs, a subject I am the last person to admit knowing anything about.
I never called your opinion stupid and I suggest you take that back.Quote:
Originally posted by Alydar
Do you guys have terminal cancer? Have you had some severe depression that makes it difficult for you to get out of bed in the morning? Do you have chronic back pain that makes your life a living hell? Have you ever felt so miserable with your life, and have you gone to therapy only to find that it doesn't work for you and you still remain miserable?
Maybe before Jarkis and yourself are quick to label suicide as a cowards way out of life you should stop and consider the actual pain people go through when considering suicide. Jarkis' stupid sentence in his post said it all. Here's the quote.
Well Jarkis, reality check for you. You are not a cripple, you are not handicapped, you are not brain dead, etc. And here you are blowing hot air saying shit like this when you have NOT even experienced any of it. Now if you do end up broke or handicapped, maybe you'd realize why some people would think suicide as a way out. Oh yeah it's easy for Azoryn and you to be all noble without even considering the pain others actually go through.
Before anyone labels suicide as a cowards way out, they should at the very least consider the circumstances around it rather than jump to conclusions. That goes for you especially Jarkis and Azoryn.
However... before you go on talking as if you know what i've been through, I suggest you keep quiet. Oh... I think during that period when i thought cutting my wrists would make people notice me, was nothing... oh yeah, i remember, when life was going downhill for two years of my life and I contemplated slashin my wrists, thinking how deep would i have to go, because i was depressed, was also nothing. I may be young, but do not judge me. Oh then there was granny. Yes old sweet granny. She was dying of cancer. It was painfull.. yes i remember the freakin screams she belted out because she had to get out of bed. Did she die by deciding to kill herself. No. She died in dignity... I was only ten, but i remember her strength.
I was deciding not to say anything, but I cannot stand it when someone says my opinion is stupid. And as for me not living through it, reality check. I have. But did i kill myself in the end? Oh... wait... yeah thats right, im still here.
Am I being freakin Noble about it. Hell yeah.
How about you. You contemplated suicide? You been through that hell hole before? Whatever it is, i will respect your opinion.
Yes, and if everybody was built the same way then I might have to agree with you that suicide would be a cowardly act. However every human being is unique with his or her own strengths and weaknesses. So the fact that just because many people have survived doesn't mean we all will. Some people just don't have the tenacity and the mental fortitude to survive. I mean hey, Darwin. Survival of the fittest. Those same laws that applies to other animals applies to us as well.Quote:
Originally posted by Azoryn
I don't care if the person making the decision to commit suicide does so on a whim, or carefully plans it. He/she is a coward.
With EVERY example you've listed (Excepting the terminally ill) there are people who have had it, overcome it, and live happy lives DESPITE it.
A man's life is his own to end, no law will ever stop that. But society should always regard suicide with the utmost disdain. People should always be encourage to try, try, and try again to live a happy life. Because it IS possible, no matter -what's- going on.
Being easy on suicide, or even acting like it's a viable solution is dangerous. It only creates unnecessary death and suffering.
And hey, if people who commit suicide are cowards, then I suggest you go find some family members of suicide victims and tell them to their face that their relation was an utter coward for comitting suicide.
Nice try Jarkis, but you missed the mark. I didn't call your opinion stupid. What I called stupid was a specific sentence you wrote. Here it is againQuote:
Originally posted by Jarkis
I never called your opinion stupid and I suggest you take that back.
Frankly Jarkis that is a really stupid statement, and I won't take it back. In fact I believe I was laughing like a lunatic when I read that part of your statement.Quote:
And when I die I will rather die a cripple, rather die handicap, rather die brain dead, rather die a broke, rather die a bum on a street then dishonour myself by commiting suicide.
When you word a statement like that, you are certainly implying that you've never experienced any of the hardships you listed. Are you a cripple Jarkis? Have you ever been broke? Ever been homeless? I still say no. I was just throwing your words back at you. Never did I say I knew what you were going through. You simply misinterpreted what I wrote.
Anyways, I'm sorry for what your grandmother went through. I don't know why you bring it up because again, I never claimed to know what you've gone through.
Have I ever contemplated suicide? Don't know what difference it would make to the argument at hand, but aw shucks. Yep, I have. Beginning high school was a tough time for me, going from a 400 person middle school to a massive 2800 capacity high school. Was tramautic enough trying to adjust, and on top of that my first grades during high school came under parental expectations. So parents got on my case really hard, mom went as far to predict that I would amount to nothing more than a janitor. So it starts to weigh down on me mentally, and finally one day I decide to end it all. Got a knife, deliberated whether I should continue, decided I had nothing else left. But as soon as I put the knife against my wrist, I felt some shock go through me, kind of like a feeling you get when electrocuted. Was breathing very heavily. Just stood there with the knife against my wrist for a while, was probably 2-3 minutes but felt like eternity. Then I simply put the knife away. I dunno why.
And on a final note. I do respect your opinion Jarkis (save for the insistence that suicide is a coward's death), and I did not call it stupid.
My thoughts exactly. For after all, at the very last line of my first post, I did write this.Quote:
Originally posted by Haigen
So if this was a planned suicide and not a snap decision, then he was a selfish egomaniacal fucktard, not a coward.
Shoving a gun in your mouth and pulling the trigger whilst on the phone to your wife is just plain stupid, but doing it in a room next to a six year old is sheer idiocy. When that kid grows up with little to no respect for life, will people wonder why?
The only thing reprehensible about Thompson's suicide was that the did it while his wife was on the phone line.