I recognize your criticism and in its light take back what I said. That was what I meant.
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I recognize your criticism and in its light take back what I said. That was what I meant.
I'm of a different opinion with the same result. I think too many people in the United States ARE NOT multi-lingual, and that includes immigrants. I think that the Hispanic parents who do not make an effort to learn English and help their children learn English are just as bad as the parents of English speaking children who do not promote their children learning another language in an immersive manner.
However, I also think it is extermely important for a country to have an "official" language for a mulititude of reasons, even if some of them sound silly. First of all, when you look under an Encyclopedia entry, most countries have an official language listed. I also think it's silly for people to think that English is our official language (logically so) and have to be told that it is NOT our official language. It seems silly to not just make it official. Last but not least, English IS what nearly everyone speaks in this country. If you are living in a country where you do not wish to communicate with the average citizen, I believe that you should move your butt back home then.
Well sometimes the circumstances will force another to learn English.
Switzerland. They are so diverse that they have many native tongues. German Italian French and Romanian. So if a german-speakin met a italian-speaker, they will have to converse in English. Or it will tear their community apart.
Same in Singapore. We have Chinese the Malays and Indians. The government made the languages official and the national language Malay due to political reasons. English however is complusory to be learned next to our mother tongue.
So everywhere in Singapore you have bi-linguals. ANd remember how some Singaporeans are plain crazy. Our current Prime Minister can speak both Chinese and Malay and he learned Russian because he liked maths.
The point however is. Bi-ligualism can be force due to the circumstances. And i dunnoe, but don't American childen learn Spainish in school? I am not really sure.
I think this can be seen from a positive perspective. It is a great opportunity for all the American children to learn two languages, and in public schools, for free. About expecting migrating parents to learn English properly, that might be a lost cause. Many times, immigrants do not have the education to be able to even write properly in their own language, how are they going to learn a new one? They are maybe too old to learn a new language and they do not need it if they stay with people in their same situation. Which is a pity but we have a saying in Spanish that would translate something like "one cannot ask for oranges to the pear tree".Quote:
For example, they want schools to teach in BOTH languages rather than just teach the kids English and then teach them along with everyone else. This is an outrage and it is a tremendous waste of money.
In Spain, students are obligated to learn English during primary and secondary school, even some universities ask for some profidency exam as a requirement to finish the degree. In the past, the compulsory language in public schools was French, because it was still used in Europe for business, political and diplomatic relations. I think it is common in European countries to have at least one compulsory language at school. From your comments, I believe this is not the case in the States and I know by experience that Australian students do not have any compulsory language in their public schools.
It is also common in Europe to find private schools that teach several languages, so different subjects are taught in different languages. A privilege that only few can pay.
If I had a child, I would like him/her to learn as many languages as possible and in the most efficient way, which is to learn languages at school when they are young.
I have the feeling that many English speaking people do feel that others should learn English and they should not have to learn other languages. I think this is pure ignorant. It is amazing to be able to speak other languages and understand other cultures.
As an anecdote, I was once passing by a very busy train station in Madrid when I heard a loudly woman swearing and complaining in English that nobody spoke English in this country. So I politely asked them if I could help them and they were looking for a taxi. Ok, the station does not have English signs but they have this graphical signs with a bus picture, and a little car with a light on the top picture that looks very much like a taxi. There are two points in this anecdote: 1. they expected everybody in the streets to be able to speak English (why, do I expect everybody in Romania to speak Spanish or hebrum for this matter?), 2. they weren't going to make any effort to communicate, they weren't able to even read the pictures signs. Ah and taxi means taxi in Spanish.
To wrap up. I think it is great if American students have the opportunity to learn two languages in the schools.
Salimar
I spent a year living in France; and although I was fluent long before living there, I never expected to have things brought to me or translated into english.
If I was truly lost with understanding federal documents, I'd bring a friend along, or ask someone nicely to help me out.
It drives me crazy back here, how some immigrants can't seem to be bothered to learn basic english. Many seem to feel my country needs to bend to them, and not vice versa.
I have to agree with Dalaena, there aren't enough multi-lingual people in the US or at least being taught multiple languages.
I am struggling to learn Afrikaans here. A lot of it is because I don't have the "sounds" of the language. And its quite hard. South Africa also has 9 official language. Granted they only really use 3 of them, English, Afrikaans and Xhosa.
My friend has a 6 month old daughter and is teaching her German, Afrikaans and English, she makes sure she speaks to her in all three languages. I even think she plays her daughter spanish tapes.
Should my husband and I decide to have kids, I would expose them to many languages when they are little, give them a good basis to learn languages as they grow up.
THat's not what he was talking about. ESL is teaching everyone in their primary language, not teaching in a bilingual manner.Quote:
Originally posted by Salimar
I think this can be seen from a positive perspective. It is a great opportunity for all the American children to learn two languages, and in public schools, for free.
Oh, but wouldn't that be nice?Quote:
Originally posted by Salimar
I think this can be seen from a positive perspective. It is a great opportunity for all the American children to learn two languages, and in public schools, for free.
They want to teach the kids seperately. This results in twice as many teachers (the teachers unions love this) and then the immigrants never have to learn English.
This of course keeps them reliant upon the government, which in turn keeps the pandering politicians in power.
Teaching the immigrants/non-English speakers how to speak English empowers them and allows them to become productive, contributing members of society.
Not teaching them English under the complete lie of "political correctness" or "cultural sensitivity" dooms them to a lifetime of poverty and government dependence.
I live in Chicago.
Here, in many many areas of the city, an english speaking person is not always easy to find.
Here's a thing to think about. If I drive through a McDonalds, they speak in Spanish until I go, "What?" then they go, "Ooh, Um... Can I have what you want for order?"
I go to the MASS CHAIN grocery store nearest my house, and the check out clerks say my total in Polish. And when I stare blankly, they point at the digital read out of the total, assumedly because they don't want to have to remember how to say $38.28 in english.
Now, if you don't think THAT is a little ridiculous. There's something wrong.
Also, I work in the Registrar's office of a technical college. Students that have (supposedly) taken and passed ESL courses, at another institution are barely able to communicate in english still. And this isn't a "this one guy" story... its about a 50/50 chance that these students don't stare at me blankly as I explain something that is NOT in the least bit difficult to understand.
And here it is not limited to a spanish/english bilingual issue. For me to be able to provide the proper language for these supposedly already english speaking people, I'd have to be fluent in spanish, polish, russian, both chinese, ukraine, african languages, and who knows what else they understand.
That is why hospital, police, and government coddling of the language impared people is a very frustrating thing in the US. It makes many more economic and logistitc problems than it can EVER solve.
Drive through chicago's neighborhoods, see how many blocks you can go in many areas before you see a bilboard or store sign that's in english.
Damn, Wrent.
That is a very good illustration of the problem we have here and need to address.