An Amerikan Edjukashon

Dal, I didn't know Thai parents were the same as here, but it sounds like they are. Especially with the studying after school thing.

It might be mildly more extreme here (just because they don't like to go outside the country so you HAVE to do well so you can go to a GOOD middle school so you can go to a GOOD High school so you can go to Seoul National University...etc...) (I have 9 year olds worrying about their university..)

Sounds like you got the same exact thing. And I think maybe going to the US was a good thing for you SPECIFICALLY because you could 'slack off' a bit for once in your life. I doubt you did but I just mean it in that.. you got to live a bit? I seriously worry when some of my students will ever get to.. live.. they go from elementary school (6 hours plus 1 or 2 hours after school) to middle school when the studying gets ramped up.. to high school when it gets ramped up some more.. then university.. these kids are isnane. Or their parents are anyway. I got kids sayin' to me they they don't like the vacations because their mother makes them STUDY MORE THAN IN SCHOOL TIME...sick. I think this is the worst country in Asia/the world for stupid obsessions with education though. It's all about test taking too.

You can respect education to a certain extent, and think its great that kids learn some stuff.. but.. when it gets to the kind of level I've seen it at.. I'd almost prefer my kids to be illiterate heh. Some kind of balance is seriously needed. And in the US you're a lot f'in closer than they are out here in Asia. If a kid does better in some dopey ass math quiz in Asia... fuck 'em. Fuck the insane education for the sake of it. No point scoring points on point tests if you end up with a nation of.. well.. Koreans ;) (sorry my chingu!)

-tharun

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Originally posted by Dalaena
There's flaws in systems on both sides of the country.

In Thailand, almost all kids go to school AND get tutored heavily after school. This, however, is usually by THEIR choice because peer pressure demands that you do well in school. There is an intense amount of academic pressure as well as support from parents as well. All teachers in Thailand that teach in public schools basically get a medal of honor from having served their country.

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More school days, less school hours per day, more breaks but shorter breaks, mandatory extra curricular activies or pt jobs to fill up the afternoons. It would give students a better all around development than the crammed feeling I've felt throughout my high school years.

I dont believe in more schooling is better. Smart schooling, that's the ticket. I'm a believer in longer breaks give kids too much time to turn bad.

Here's a quote I disagree with from an anti year round site. http://www.summermatters.com/
"It is absurd to suggest that children aren’t learning during the summer. It’s a different type of learning, which simply is not tested."

—Dr. Leo Wisenbender,
Los Angeles Unified Program and Evaluation Branch, 1994

I call that bullshit. During my shcool days I forgot just about every thing then have to relearn it the next school term. It's a lot of wasted time to catch up. This site also claims other experiences kids benefit from summer vacation. As if it is not available any other way.

There is a lot of power and politics against the year round schooling because of economics. Students are the biggest source of cheap and quick labor. Keeping kids in school equates to keeping criminals in prison in terms of dollar per person. This site gives us some dollar numbers from Texas.

http://www.window.state.tx.us/specia...hoolstart2004/

"The academic benefits of stretching the instructional year have not been proved, but the economic costs are known"

Bottom line, every thing around the matter has been studied EXCEPT the heart of the matter the students' academics, and this study says everyone wins by keeping summer break. Not only that, more breaks is better!

I myself was actually a child (anyone else in the same boat?) and the summer vacations ROCKED. They were the highlight of my childhood. School wasn't terrible or anything, but having a nice long break ruled. I am 100% convinced that its good for the kids to get some 'time off' every year. They probably won't ever get breaks like that again until they're retired. Sure they could 'learn' some more crap if they weren't out riding their bikes and playing, but really, who gives a fuck?

Learning is good, but so is having fun, climbing trees, watching tv, playing computer games, fighting with the neighbours kids, and just being children.

Obsessing about education is retarded, vacations are great. My thoughts on the matter =)

-tharun

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Originally posted by Katidyd
More school days, less school hours per day, more breaks but shorter breaks, mandatory extra curricular activies or pt jobs to fill up the afternoons. It would give students a better all around development than the crammed feeling I've felt throughout my high school years.

I dont believe in more schooling is better. Smart schooling, that's the ticket. I'm a believer in longer breaks give kids too much time to turn bad.

Here's a quote I disagree with from an anti year round site. http://www.summermatters.com/
"It is absurd to suggest that children aren’t learning during the summer. It’s a different type of learning, which simply is not tested."

—Dr. Leo Wisenbender,
Los Angeles Unified Program and Evaluation Branch, 1994

I call that bullshit. During my shcool days I forgot just about every thing then have to relearn it the next school term. It's a lot of wasted time to catch up. This site also claims other experiences kids benefit from summer vacation. As if it is not available any other way.

There is a lot of power and politics against the year round schooling because of economics. Students are the biggest source of cheap and quick labor. Keeping kids in school equates to keeping criminals in prison in terms of dollar per person. This site gives us some dollar numbers from Texas.

http://www.window.state.tx.us/specia...hoolstart2004/

"The academic benefits of stretching the instructional year have not been proved, but the economic costs are known"

Bottom line, every thing around the matter has been studied EXCEPT the heart of the matter the students' academics, and this study says everyone wins by keeping summer break. Not only that, more breaks is better!

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Originally posted by tharun
I myself was actually a child (anyone else in the same boat?) and the summer vacations ROCKED. They were the highlight of my childhood. School wasn't terrible or anything, but having a nice long break ruled. I am 100% convinced that its good for the kids to get some 'time off' every year. They probably won't ever get breaks like that again until they're retired. Sure they could 'learn' some more crap if they weren't out riding their bikes and playing, but really, who gives a fuck?

Learning is good, but so is having fun, climbing trees, watching tv, playing computer games, fighting with the neighbours kids, and just being children.

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But what if instead of one huge 3 month vacation every 9 months, you got a 1 month vacation every 3 months?

I have to agree that the summer vacation is so long that it quickly ceases to be productive.

Also, the fact that you look back on it so fondly now (as many adults do) is part of the problem. It sets you up for ENORMOUS disappointment once you get older and such huge vacations are no longer anywhere near the realm of possibility.

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Originally posted by Aristotle
But what if instead of one huge 3 month vacation every 9 months, you got a 1 month vacation every 3 months?

I have to agree that the summer vacation is so long that it quickly ceases to be productive.

Also, the fact that you look back on it so fondly now (as many adults do) is part of the problem. It sets you up for ENORMOUS disappointment once you get older and such huge vacations are no longer anywhere near the realm of possibility.

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I also wonder if it might be better, as far as the experiential learning benefit goes, if they did have shorter but more frequent vacations, since that way, they could explore the outdoors in different seasons and try activities suited to different times of year.

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Originally posted by Graeblyn
I also wonder if it might be better, as far as the experiential learning benefit goes, if they did have shorter but more frequent vacations, since that way, they could explore the outdoors in different seasons and try activities suited to different times of year.

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That is a good point as well. I think it takes adults a while to realize "what? You can go on vacation other times than the summer?!?!?!"

This starts to move towards a pet peeve of mine that so many people do things at exactly the same time as everyone else. Everyone drives to/from work at the same time. People take vacations at the same time. All of these habits result in overcrowding at certain specific times and barely any use of the same resources at other times. That is wasteful as well as inconvenient.

But getting away from that tangent, I really do not think the 3 month summer vacation is productive in any way. At best a few weeks of it are productive if the family chooses to take an educational trip of some sort. Yes, relaxation and play are good as well, but you don't need 3 months in a row to produce that benefit.

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Originally posted by Aristotle
But what if instead of one huge 3 month vacation every 9 months, you got a 1 month vacation every 3 months?

I have to agree that the summer vacation is so long that it quickly ceases to be productive.

Also, the fact that you look back on it so fondly now (as many adults do) is part of the problem. It sets you up for ENORMOUS disappointment once you get older and such huge vacations are no longer anywhere near the realm of possibility.

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Wasn't that the point? To not be productive? Also, while I enormously enjoyed my vacations off school, I never found the transition to being an adult to include an enormous disappointment at not having several months off any more. I think it's something that as you grow older and more perceptive of the world around you, you begin to realise that your parents don't have this much time off and as you begin to think about things like jobs, working, etc and draw on what you know, you know that few adults (if any) actually get to spend that much consecutive time not working. We observe a lot of things about our parents as we grow up, I certainly knew in grade nine (which is for many at least 7 years still away from working full time) that work would not include a summer vacation of this length.

I also never went on summer vacations TO places. Or if I did, it was to a family member. Again, things might be different in the US, but I think out of all the people I knew at least 90% stayed around locally during any vacation (winter, summer, march break). Things change as people get more into college/university where they might go off in small groups to places that would interest people their own age.

I have zero problems with children having these months off. If you put things down to a month every three months then what you'll probably achieve is a narrower concentration of time where people will be more likely to converge at your favourite destinations whereas it would be more spreadout through the duration of the "peak" season.

Everything about being a child is learning even when you're not in school. I think it's the curricula that need addressing, not what happens during off time.

Clearly from the views express, it is clear that an Asian Model of education could not really be accepted into the American Society. Traditionally studies come first for us. I used to do nine hours of studying during the month of a major examination.( i did have breaks in between.)

To me staggered breaks makes me more relaxed and attuned throughout the year and I don't suffer a burnout.

On Studying only and doing nothing and Having no life is false. I used to be the in the rugby school team and helped build the soccer team. I was in a uniform group and did various inter-school debates (rarely). I played loads. Hanged with friends loads. Even had time for a girlfriend. It is how we are able to adapt to such an meritocractic society. Some study to the max to get their merits to be the best. But many of us could balance both studying and playing. I could balance well and in the end still became a jock, only a jock who got A in History, Geography and Literature.

This is what a student should want to acheive. To be smart both academically and on the street.

Problem in Korea, must be the parents. Japan however is different. Those guys don't have any exams all the way till the last year of their school. They also are trendsetters for most people in Asia. Hong Kong is a close mirror of Singapore and Taiwan has quite a big American influence.

So I figure it still lies within the mindset. I didn look forward to holidays in fact. Cause it would be a month and a half of total boredom. I went out with friends played loads of soccer and revised, yet in the end, you find yerself spending half the time at home.

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Originally posted by karahd
I also never went on summer vacations TO places. Or if I did, it was to a family member. Again, things might be different in the US, but I think out of all the people I knew at least 90% stayed around locally during any vacation (winter, summer, march break). Things change as people get more into college/university where they might go off in small groups to places that would interest people their own age.

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My parents made an effort to take us out of town every year during vacations, no matter how broke we were. We would just scrape together enough to stay in some cockroach motel since we spent most of the days out anyway. This was simply to teach us about different places and to see historical/monumental places in the US. Towards the end of my school years, we were just going places so we could see different places. A lot of the kids I knew stayed near home, but we always had at least one week of travel.

Unfortunately, everywhere we went was always pretty crowded since we could only go during the summer. It would actually be nice for vacations to be more spread out, imo. I would have rather had 3 one month vacations than just one full lump of 3 months. Another interesting system would be 2 months vacation and then 1 month vacation. That way, I don't have to get burnt out in school and then bored during the summers.

Obviously, now I've got no vacation time at all, but I'm just thinking about the good old days.

I've changed my mind (if I did indeed solidly express one). I like the idea of more shorter breaks (specifically the idea of 3 one month breaks). As long as it doesn't in fact mean more school time in the end.

Feel free to use school time smarter (drop most advanced maths, physics, chemistry etc. for those who aren't interested and teach shit useful to daily life instead for those who like that..). Right now more creative shit is gonna be more useful than math or science (outsourcing.. India, Japan, China etc..).

But please don't think that some lame ass tests make American kids worse than their asian counterparts. That is some lame shit. They study for TESTS, hopefully American and European students study for something more useful than mere TESTs.

So fine..scrap the long summer.. as long as you promise to make every other holiday extra long instead. That I can deal with. I bet western teachers would dig that shit too. Perhaps in the end kids might learn more too. Hmm. Maybe..

-tharun