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Kharum, can you provide links? I noted the quotes you made, but you didn't provide any links to sites that you quoted. I don't mind reading what you quote, but I do like to visit sites when people quote them so that I know the source and can further my own research.
I did provide a link addressing the misinformation about post-war casualties. As for the Gallup poll, you can probably find that a number of places but for those of you who are too busy to google 'gallup poll iraq,' you can find the information at USAToday.Quote:
Originally posted by Pyrosama
Kharum, can you provide links?
Why would I want democracy to fail in Iraq? More importantly, perhaps, why would the fact that I expressed a bit of skepticism about the current course being taken in Iraq suggest in any way that I want democracy to fail in Iraq? I wasn't aware that one's commitment to democracy in Iraq was based solely on the willingness to play cheerleader to American policies regardless of whether or not they appear to be working.Quote:
Originally posted by Aristotle
Kharum, do you want us to fail to bring democracy to Iraq or succeed?
Well the stats show that there is hope. Not all think the USA are there to torture the men and rape the women.
How long exactly is the USA going to be there? Just wondering. And how much has the war cost until now? And wouldn't it be costlier to send more troops there? I guess Bush has a long-term plan for the war or its gonna drive the economy down a spiralling darkness.
Actually, I'm not too busy at all to do a google search. But since you made a quote, I was simply curious from which site you retrieved those results. If you don't remember then fine.Quote:
Originally posted by Kharum
I did provide a link addressing the misinformation about post-war casualties. As for the Gallup poll, you can probably find that a number of places but for those of you who are too busy to google 'gallup poll iraq,'
The reason I asked is because certain poll results can be skewed dependent upon how you poll your data. There are some sites that I wouldn't even consider visiting if I'm looking for pretty accurate results. Mostly they are liberal sites that like to either put down the US and/or conservative agendas.
Huh? I provided the link for you.Quote:
Originally posted by Pyrosama
If you don't remember then fine.
You did. Sorry.Quote:
Originally posted by Kharum
Huh? I provided the link for you.
I'll check it out.
Well now you are aware. I'm glad I could help. :)Quote:
Originally posted by Kharum
Why would I want democracy to fail in Iraq? More importantly, perhaps, why would the fact that I expressed a bit of skepticism about the current course being taken in Iraq suggest in any way that I want democracy to fail in Iraq? I wasn't aware that one's commitment to democracy in Iraq was based solely on the willingness to play cheerleader to American policies regardless of whether or not they appear to be working.
Kharum, it wouldn't matter who was President and it wouldn't matter what country was there. The problem is not a political one now. It is now a problem like putting out oil fires, producing cold fusion, or mastering near-light speed transportation.
It is exceptionally difficult but it is not a matter of politics- it is a matter of solving very difficult problems. Now that we are there, almost nothing would be done differently no matter who the President or the occupying nation was.
That's why I asked, because unless you actually want us to fail, your criticisms are misplaced.
Now is a time to be positive, not negative. The surest way for us to fail is for the US to get into a rush because whiners, Bush haters, and biased media want to portray everything as a failure.
This is not about George Bush. If you think we should not have gone to Iraq in the first place, then vote against him. If you don't like his stances on religion, gay marriage, abortion, or whatever vote against him. I certainly do not agree with his stances on any of those issues.
But now that we are there, you need to put your Bush hate to the side as far as this ONE ISSUE (Iraq) is concerned and be supportive and positive.
We are trying to do the most difficult thing in all of geopolitics. We are the only nation that has ever been successful at it. In fact, we are the only nation in the history of the world to invade, conquer, and then turn power back to the people of that nation.
There is no guaranteed "Just Add Water!" recipe that works perfectly every time. This is going to take at least 5-10 years at a minimum. In fact, being there longer is an indicator of success. It means the people WANT us there (example: Germany).
Hurrying through the job to get out as fast as possible because Bush haters and a horrendously biased media insist on being negative is the surest way to fail.
Should that happen, the people who labeled everything a failure (even successes) and who pressured us to get out in a hurry are the ones to blame. They will bear on their conscience the blood of millions tortured and killed in the future because they helped democracy fail in the region.
The most important thing in geopolitics is WILL. We have almost limitless power but without the WILL to use it, power is useless. The reason terrorism is so effective is because terrorists have almost limitless WILL. Political partisans who do nothing but spew vitriolic negativity, exaggerate setbacks, and squelch successes break our WILL.
Is getting a single, irrelevant (in the grand scheme of things) man out of office worth such a price?
If I could trade John Kerry being President for success in Iraq, I would gladly do so. Unfortunately, the other camp would also gladly trade failure in Iraq for the defeat of George Bush. That is pathetic and morally unconscionable.
P.S. I would trade a John McCain - John Edwards ticket for George Bush and John Kerry any day of the week. :)
I find it an absurd notion that the U.S. has the will to see this through. As a nation we have no stomach for causalties of our own citizens. The only reason Bush was able to get people to go along with this is because they insinuated that this would be a brief, easy, low-causalties operation.
We'll pull out within a year, due to massive public outcry, and Iraq will transform into an Islamist theocracy like Iran or into a patchwork of warlord-run territories with a sort-of democratic 'Iraqi' government controlling the few cities with a decent, intact infrastructure, rather like Afghanistan. This will occur regardless of who wins the election.
At least, that's my personal prediction.