Manning Returns to Earth... Congrats Patriots!

Wow... Manning really screwed the pooch. I give him a lot of credit, however, for continuing to play hard despite the picks. I really feel like the Pats got away with 2 eggregious defensive holding penalties on the Colts final drive, and that is a real shame because that very well might have tied things up and made an otherwise boring game REALLY exciting.

The Pats looked excellent, but I have to wonder about a team that gets +5 turnovers and is still fighting for its life in the final minutes. More on that in the Super Bowl thread.

The question is, however, who was to blame for the loss. Did Manning choke? Did the Pats defense just play great? A little of both?

I know this poll is sorta whacko and has a ton of options, but I thought it might be fun.

At the last minute I added the last 2 possibilities just to see what people thought.

I went with Both (50/50) mainly because despite 4 picks Manning kept the team in the game and darn close to sending the game to OT (as I mentioned).

I was tempted by the Marvin Harrison answer because he really didn't show up to play. That was very disappointing. The fact that Stokley didn't really have his head in the game because of his sick child didn't help either.

I don't want to take anything about from the Pats. Their defense played great.

I think the Colts much maligned defense deserves some props as well. Holding the Pats to 6 points off 5 turnovers, and forcing them to kick 5 field goals was pretty impressive.

I'm glad to see folks voting on the poll but lets hear some explanations for the votes! :)

This was my opinion before the game, and its still my opinion about what happened:

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Originally posted by Damieux
Peyton Manning is on fire in the playoffs. His aerial attack looked astounding in those two dome games. Glancing over the Colt’s schedule, though, they don’t appear to have had to face adverse conditions all season, except for their game at Buffalo in November when they barely beat a Bills team that fell apart this year. Plus their ground game has been less than impressive this season; they finished 19th in the league in total yards rushing. You could attribute that low number to a side effect of their stellar passing game, except they finished 26th in yards per attempt with an average of only 3.7. Given that this game will be played at Foxboro in mid-January, I think you have to like the Patriot’s chances.

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I just wish my other prediction had been correct. :(

I really don't think the weather was a factor at all though.

When Manning wasn't throwing picks and when Harrison wasn't fumbling to kill drives, they were moving the ball.

The problem was the defense made some great picks, Harrison didn't show up, and Manning was letting himself get confused by the defense.

I expected the weather to be a factor but it seemed to be irrelevant.

I think the picks and the fumbles can be attributed to the weather, which must have made the ball slick and hard as a rock and certainly impacted visibility. Basically, I think the Colts simply weren't accustomed to playing in adverse weather conditions (because they haven't had to do so all year), and I think that heavily impacted their game.

Of course, the weather can only possibly be one factor. They also faced a much better defense than they had previously met in the playoffs. The Patriots are a very good team, and I find it hard not to like Tom Brady.

I really think Manning tried. Though I think he also got discouraged when Ty Law kept intercepting his passes. Nevertheless he kept trying and I give him credit. There were a couple questionable calls but I have to say that the Pats did great in offense and defense. They had their shit going on. The game I found boring was the Eagles and the Panthers. The Pat's game was just amazing. But I'm a Pats fan!:D

I still say we need a football smiley ;)

I started explaining mine last night but my computer froze on me, and I was too lazy to re-write it :P

I went with 60/40 in favor of the D being the reason. The one handed interception by Ty Law was 100% great defense. The four sacks were all the defense; Manning didn't have anyone to throw to because the coverage was amazing. Manning didn't play up to expectations, but I think the AWESOME defensive display had a little more to do with it than he did.

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Originally posted by Aristotle
I expected the weather to be a factor but it seemed to be irrelevant.

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I agree completely. Manning didn't have a problem with the weather, he had a problem reading the defense. It may have been a factor in the Harrison fumble, but that's about it.

I thought that Manning had 2 picks that were just great plays by the defense.

What hurt the Colts a lot was the safety they gave up and the defense had no ability to stop the Patriots.

If the D had held them to punts just twice and take the safety off the board and despite all the picks, the Colts could have been up 14-13... granted, if those things happened the Pats could have done things differently.

Manning definitely was part of the problem but Marvin didn't show, the defense didn't show and the Patriots D made great plays.

I think the lack of holding calls hurt them as well and some of them were pretty blatant.

I agree that the weather had no impact on the Colts losing.

I think sometimes a sloppy field favors the offense because defenders can't keep up with the cuts and the O-line has an advantage in they can just lock in place and make the D slip and slide.

At the end of the day, the Patriots were the better team. They beat the Colts twice this year, once in Indy, once in Foxboro. They had the best record in the league.

I'm not a Manning apologist. I don't even like Manning. I think he's a great QB but I often root against him.

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Originally posted by Sebboe
... and the defense had no ability to stop the Patriots.

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Looking at the drive chart for the game I think the Colts D did more than enough to keep the Colts in the game. Out of the 24 points the Patriots scored, 2 were given to them by the Colts on the safety and 3 were handed to them by their defense. The Colts defense only gave up 19 points as far as I'm concerned. That's a pretty good game for the D, especially when you should be able to rely on your offense to put up 30+ points per game. The Patriots started with the ball in Colt's territory three times, and beyond their own 40 four times. That's 7 drives that have to go less than 60 yards! Out of those drives the Pats got a wopping 6 points. The Pats only had four drives over 50 yards, the Colts had that many! The longest Pats drive was 67 yards, not impressive. I'll give the Pats credit for their first two drives, those were well put together, but after that the Colts D held their own.

The Pats win because they have the best D in the league, and damn good special teams. It puts their slightly above average offense in great positions. I'll give the Pats credit where they deserve it, but their offense isn't where it's at.

I think psychologically the Pats putting points up on the board 3 at a time was a big thing. Every time the Colts offense took the field, they were down more points than the last time they had the ball. That has to frustrate an offense that is struggling to pass but is running the ball well.

Honestly, and I know people are gonna disagree with me on this one, I think it was almost ALL the Defense.

Manning was coming off UNGODLY performances. Days like no one has ever seen in the playoffs. That doesnt make it his "normal" day. You Cant expect someone to repeat that, I cant believe he did it twice in a row, kudos to him... but welcome back to the NFL

The weather? Eh.. I dunno, sure, they play in domes, but this is the NFL. Those boys can play anywhere. Brady looked sharp as shit in the exact same weather.

In the NFL, against a sound, discimplined defense, that plays their positions, which is what NE does VERY well.... You cannot pass the ball all day. You have to establish the run, and KEEP doing it. they kept trying to do the "trick" formations, where they'd have 4 wide, un 2 bunches, and yes, that did confuse NE for all of ONE series.... but then they KEPT doing it.

Ive watched manning all year, and he is a momentum QB I think. When he gets the ball going his way.. he gets better, and better, and has fucking awesome days. But as SOON as shit starts going on... it gets worse, and worse.... because they wont go back to the run to chill him out.

I thought he still had a decent game though. If I was gonna pass around blame, id do it evenly. Freeney didnt have the game he was touted to, the offensive line got worked, James actually did REALLY good, but they never gave him a chance, Wayne caught balls, Harrison got open, but everytime they were passed to they got LEVELED by the safeties.

The coverage was fucking awesome. The pass rush was amazing. When they were in man, they stuck it tight... and when they were in zone they only allowed small yardage.

So. Yes, Manning is no god. No QB can be held responsible for an entire loss (Maybe Brett Farve) he didnt have his PHENOMENAL day like with Denver and KC. You know what? Hats off to NE.

Way to play ball.

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Originally posted by Damieux
I think the picks and the fumbles can be attributed to the weather, which must have made the ball slick and hard as a rock and certainly impacted visibility. Basically, I think the Colts simply weren't accustomed to playing in adverse weather conditions (because they haven't had to do so all year), and I think that heavily impacted their game.

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Did you actually watch the game?

1 of the picks was an unbeliveably amazing play by Ty Law.

1 of the picks was because Manning overestimated the height of the DE.

2 of the picks were moronic throws that shouldn't have been made.

Marvin Harrison's fumble was just being a pussy and coughing up the ball when he got hit.

None of those were weather related.

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Originally posted by Isaviel
There were a couple questionable calls

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The only bad calls I thought were the last 2 on the Colt's final drive. Otherwise I think it was a well called game that the Pats controlled throughout.

There was defensive holding two plays in a row and it is a damn shame that neither one got called. It would have been exciting to see if the Colts could have gotten their shit together and rallied.

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Originally posted by Gadiantor
I think the Colts D did more than enough to keep the Colts in the game. Out of the 24 points the Patriots scored, 2 were given to them by the Colts on the safety and 3 were handed to them by their defense. The Colts defense only gave up 19 points as far as I'm concerned. That's a pretty good game for the D, especially when you should be able to rely on your offense to put up 30+ points per game.

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That's my feeling as well. Furthermore, the last 3 of those 19 were at the end when the game was over.

The Colts D performed very well- above expectations. Holding the Pats to all those field goals was excellent. Usually, if you hold a team to 5 field goals when you have a great offense, you win.

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Originally posted by Serith
Ive watched manning all year, and he is a momentum QB I think. When he gets the ball going his way.. he gets better, and better, and has fucking awesome days. But as SOON as shit starts going on... it gets worse, and worse.... because they wont go back to the run to chill him out.

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I think you are dead on about Manning. David Greene (UGA's QB) plays the same way. I consider that style to be a very dangerous weakness because things don't always go your way. You have to be a scrapper to win the tough games.

I also agree with you that considering the insane coverage downfield they should have relied on the run more. If they had pounded them with Edge for a full quarter or so that might have softened up the secondary enough to let Manning get on a roll.

Who knows. That is what makes football awesome. Strategy and tactics matter.

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Originally posted by Aristotle
I also agree with you that considering the insane coverage downfield they should have relied on the run more. If they had pounded them with Edge for a full quarter or so that might have softened up the secondary enough to let Manning get on a roll.

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I wondered about that when I was watching the game. They had a drive going with a number of good runs in a row and then they gave up on running the ball for pretty much the rest of the game. Go figure.

I haven't been on the forums in awhile so this is coming -way- late.

I have to give it up to the Pat's D. Manning made some bad throws, but that's what happens when you are being hurried, knocked down, and sacked all day. You throw offbalance and rushed, you throw poorly. Ty Law went the extra mile to haul in one -amazing- pick, to boot.

After the KC win I said something on the sports channel to the effect of "Manning is going to get tons of hype after spending 2 weeks picking apart mediocre secondaries with all day to throw the ball. Then he's going to come to NE and have about .25 seconds to unload it into an excellent secondary and get picked about 3 times." Manning is a great QB, but no one puts up the kind of numbers against the Pats D like he had been against KC and Denver.

Beyond just Manning, the Pats D was hitting HARD. Just like they did against StL in the last Superbowl, if you -do- get yards against them, it comes at a heavy price, physically. You can't fault a guy too much for dropping a pass or coughing up the ball when he's getting hammered like that every time he comes near it.

This is what the Pat's D does. They have an exceptional system, and they adapt weekly to their new opponent. You might fool them at first, but after that drive they'll adjust to whatever you're throwing at them. At the same time, they throw new looks and personel at the O the whole game through. Hurry-up offenses and audibles are less effective, because they can play a variety of D's with the same personel on the field.

They're a talented group across the board, so you can't throw away from a star safety or double-up on a star lineman or reciever. Someone else will step up and make the play. They only had 2 men picked for the Probowl because they are a consisent team. You're generally -not- going to get 100+ yds a game as a runningback, or 4 TD catches as a reciever, or 3 sacks as a rusher. But at the end of the day what you -will- get is the one stat that matters; W. And at the end of the season what you -will- get, is a Superbowl ring. If you can stand winning the big the game without the spotlight necessarily shining on -you-, you'll be happy in NE's system.

That is how NE is managing to put together a sort of mini-dynasty in this age of salary caps. By having a great system and great coaching, you can keep a team of consistent, non-superstar players doing the job. No Leons need apply. :p

OH! I nearly forgot. One other glaring penalty was the Colts drive where the playclock was at about negative 5 and there was -still- no flag. I can't recall exactly but I believe it resulted in a first down and eventual touchdown, where it should have been a 3rd and extremely long and most likely a punt. I think the refs did do a pretty good job of 'letting the boys play'. There was a fair amount of clutching and pushing-off on either side of the ball, but it was all pretty marginal stuff, imho.

Okay, that's my humble and entirely unbiased view of the game and the Pats! See ya at the Superbowl!

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Originally posted by Arrgruff

OH! I nearly forgot. One other glaring penalty was the Colts drive where the playclock was at about negative 5 and there was -still- no flag.

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Dude. Reel in the massive home town bias.

It was about a half a second and that sort of thing happens every week. The rule is that the ref has to see it tick to 0 then look down to see if the ball has been snapped.

That's pretty darn irrelevant compared to two GLARING defensive holding penalties that would have kept the Colts drive alive when they were only down 1 score. :)

For the sake of Karma, you should try to be a LITTLE bit objective. :)

What means this "ob-jek-teev"? Your language is strange and foreign to me.

Sorry, Im with Arrgruff on that one. I sat there screaming for like 5 seconds and no flag. That was rediculous.

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Originally posted by Serith
Sorry, Im with Arrgruff on that one. I sat there screaming for like 5 seconds and no flag. That was rediculous.

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The point is, it happens every week. Making a big deal about that would be like making a big deal about the fact that 99% of NBA Players get away with travelling.

It is a common "judgement call" that often goes uncalled.

Defensive holding, 2 plays in a row to kill a potentially game tying drive is far more egregious.

Plus, as a fan who wanted a good game, it really killed would could have been a really exciting 4th quarter. :)

I am reviving this thread so people can read it before replying to the next thread about Pats-Colts predictions.