Gay Marriages

Uh... "Jewish" people are those who follow just the OT and not the NT. So, every passage that a "Jewish" person follows should also be adhered to by "Christian" people since "Christian" people follow the OT and the NT. ('cept of course the parts Jesus updates, but I'm 99.9% certain he didn't update the bit about fish.)

Anyway, yes, those passages from Leviticus are pretty much the ones that define Kosher food. And shellfish ain't Kosher. Neither are certain other types of fish. It has to do with a lot of niggly little rules that are all.... spelled out in the Bible. In the same book those anti-gay-rights people are pulling their supporting verses from.

The entire POINT of that cartoon was to point out that those "Christians" who don't keep Kosher are as every much in violation of the OT rules as those they are condemming for homosexuality.

Note: The only reason I used quotes for the terms Jewish and Christian is not to mock believers but to mock Sier's idea that "this part of the bible is for Jewish people only."

Thank you Talithia, I was hoping that someone would point that out. The problem with the modern Bible is that it has already BEEN reinterpreted throughout the centuries, and thus is full of teachings from the 'Dark' ages and other periods in which the Christian churches held heavy sway over the people.

Now, I do not have a Bible in front of me, but I believe it is in the Gospel of Matthew (I could be wrong here) that Jesus says that to pray, one should lock their door, close their window and silently talk with God, on a personal basis. The foundation of any religion is faith, and at the core of that faith is prayer. So, if we go by this, the Christian faith, which was created from the TEACHINGS not by the WILL of Jesus Christ, was meant to be a VERY private thing between the practicer and God. I could go into a tirade on this whole thing...but I'll leave it at that.

As for homosexuality; the bond between souls knows no bounds, and thus cannot be defined by mortal man, since the attraction is most often an immortal covenant between the two (Though in today's society, it often takes people quite some time to find Mr or Mrs Right). We must also remember another thing that Jesus Christ said, which was effectively "How can you hope to remove the splinter from your brother's eye when you cannot remove the plank from your own." or another phrase that I enjoy, I believe it to be from the Gospels "Do not judge lest ye be judged." I point these out to everyone who has posted here, even those who seem to take no stock in the Christian faith. Again, there is much I could say, but I will keep it short, I thank you for taking the time to listen to my rambling.

"Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."(1 Cor. 6:9-10)

Can this verse be much more basic?

"For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper." (Rom. 1:26-28)

Sound familiar?

"And reducing the cities of the Sodomites, and of the Gomorrhites, into ashes, condemned them to be overthrown, making them an example to those that should after act wickedly."(2 Peter 2:6)

Uh..God destroys two cities for this same forum topic and we're still debating whether its right in his eyes or not?

How does this authorize homosexuality? And how can you say "Oh, what we think is more important than what God thinks, he'll just approve automatically because we're smarter." You try explaining that to him in the end, I'm sure that's gonna go over well. Seriously, trying to argue against homosexuality being a sin or not is like argueing if murder is right or wrong.

In responce to TAlithia's post, you'll notice a vision was given in the New Testement that authorized the eating of unclean meats, I have no clue where it is though, but I'm 100% sure it's there because I've read it once a year. I think that the New Testement does a pretty good job explaining how to go about the Old Law.

You'll also notice these are New Testament passages and not Old listed above.

As for the "Do not judge Lest you be Judge" passage, well most people who use it just don't want to deal with the fact that they're doing wrong, so when people tell them off for it they throw this verse in their face. Someone could tell me "Nice boots!" and I could throw this verse at them, it means don't be prejudiced. Simple as that. However sin and prejudice are two seperate things, you can disagree with homosexuality without hating it and prejudicing against it.

That was a great post, Drasoini.

Yes, there are many different definitions of marriage - both legal and religious ones. I can't think of any instance where any person who performs marriages is required to perform a marriage between two individuals if he/she does not feel the couple meets whatever guidelines the institution that the person represents has put forth. So, I don't understand what the problem is in letting these institutions make the call on who they will marry or who they will not marry. If you want to call it a civil union, fine. Just who exactly would such a thing be hurting?

I'm not a Christian, but I sure did put in my time at Catholic schools. Every religion has sects and those sects have sects, and so on and so on. And a lot of people seem bent on choosing particular passages that they personally like from various texts, encasing these passages in granite, and then walking around beating people over the head with them. But if you start looking at the themes of the stories rather than the exact wordings, you find a little different message. Drasoini pointed out the "judge not lest ye be judged" message. A similar lesson is taught in many religions. Live your own life the way you feel is right, keep your own house in order - that's plenty to keep you busy for a life time. ;)

Quote:

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Originally posted by Sier
[B<snipped three verses... one of which is a bad translation, and the other two of which have nothing to do with homosexuality and none of which come directly from Christ's teachings in any event>
How does this authorize homosexuality? And how can you say "Oh, what we think is more important than what God thinks, he'll just approve automatically because we're smarter." You try explaining that to him in the end, I'm sure that's gonna go over well. Seriously, trying to argue against homosexuality being a sin or not is like argueing if murder is right or wrong.

<snipped the part about Talithia's post... the point of which seems to have escaped Sier entirely>

As for the "Do not judge Lest you be Judge" passage, well most people who use it just don't want to deal with the fact that they're doing wrong, so when people tell them off for it they throw this verse in their face. Someone could tell me "Nice boots!" and I could throw this verse at them, it means don't be prejudiced. Simple as that. However sin and prejudice are two seperate things, you can disagree with homosexuality without hating it and prejudicing against it. [/B]

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You know, I have, up to this point, respected your beliefs. However, anybody who can equate homosexuality with murder and then have the temerity to claim not to be prejudiced against it is simply not deserving of an audience, let alone respect.

Honestly, have the balls to admit you hate homosexuals and be done with it. Or, if you want to avoid coming off like a hatemonger, read the writings of people who do a much better job of representing the beliefs of those who claim to "hate the sin, yet love the sinner" such as Billy Graham, Pope John Paul, or even President Bush for that matter. Not that I agree with any of those people, but they are probably good models for the opinion you are trying to pretend you have.

Excuse me, I have had homosexual friends and I hardly hate them. And if you read my posts before, you'll know what I mean. The homosexuality sin is in the exact same verse as the rest of the sins, and the only thing that sets it aside is that noones hurt by it. I'm just not into skipping passages just because I feel uncomfortable with it, I try to live by all of them. You can pretend to ignore something all you want, but the fact will always remain that it is still there.

As much as people want to separate church and state, it's amusing and disappointing how much they want one to drive the other.

Sadly, that's very true.

The problem: There are too many religious people in the world.

The solution: I propse a kulling, who's with me?

:devil

Dol

Quote:

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Originally posted by Dolencion
Sadly, that's very true.

The problem: There are too many religious people in the world.

The solution: I propse a kulling, who's with me?

:devil

Dol

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Considering theres over 1 billion people of the Muslim religion alone, you're going to have a pretty hard time with that.:p

Graeblyn said something about equating homosexuality with murder...
Sorry to tell you man, but a sin is a sin... be it a white lie, or murder. It's all the same in God's eyes. And unfortunately the punishment for Sin is death, which is why Jesus Christ came down.
So, in a way Sier does have a point... homosexuality and murder are both sins, therefore they equal out to be the same.
No sin is worse that another... well not entirely true... The bible talks about the unforgivable sin. That's basically shutting yourself off from God to the point of absolutely no return.

Kian