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Hmm. Well, I've met men who taught elementary school, and women who played football (not professionally, but not from a lack of desire). Some of the more reknowned ballet artists have been male. If you've never met a sensitive guy or an aggressive girl, you must not get out much. You're doing a good job of proving Eorick's point about regressive attitudes, though.
You obviously haven't been to many ballets ;)Quote:
Originally posted by Sier
It's why women don't play football, and men don't do ballet.
There's DOZENS of all female football teams in the world too...hello? anyone under that rock?
I don't see why gay/lesbian couples can't raise children. We let hicks and hillbillies breed, and people marry their cousins and have children...personally, I think the inbreeding is alot worse than two men raising a child. And like it was stated before, some gay/lesbian induviduals fit their gender role, some don't. I've also seen children seriously messed up by their heterosexual parents, so I really think that genders don't matter. Some mothers practice tough love and stay-at-home daddies are much more common. Therefore, I think that gay/lesbian couples can really do no worse than hetersexual couples.
I am also a Christian, but I'm a horrible one as I fully support gay marriage. I think that God made people exactly the way they are, and so a gay man is gay for a good reason. I also realize that the Bible was written 2000+ years ago, and alot of the laws/rules in the Old Testament have basically been null and void for years. I've always been told that we have to interpret the Bible for the modern day, and so I have. I think that marriage is really for two people who love and have devoted themselve to another. Everything else doesn't matter.
I honestly think the Church is hypocritcal with the issue of gay/lesbian marriages. If two men are in love and are Children of God, I think they should be allowed to wed in a religious sense. In a lawful sense, I also believe that as long as the two people are in love and will honour their vows, that they should also be able to wed. Marriage, in a legal sense, should not be restricted from anybody.
Like I said before. We let cousins get married. I think that's alot worse than two women getting married.
I have alot more to say on a Christian's view on homosexuality, but since this is a thread on gay marriage, I'll keep my tongue.
:sleepycow
That's not true at all!:)Quote:
Originally posted by Nydani
I am also a Christian, but I'm a horrible one as I fully support gay marriage.
If you go to a search engine and type in "affirming church" you'll find GOBS of churches filled with Christians like you.
It's a myth perpetrated by the Religious Right that all good Christians condemn homosexuality. Granted, if you live in certain regions of the U.S., it can be hard to find a Church, but here in New Jersey, for example, when I typed "affirming Church in NJ" into a search engine, I came up with 65 links.
Okay, a few things to add:
1) I still think people are failing to remember that marriage is not a religious institution, it is a legal institution. I don't care whether it was started by christianity, it is no longer just a christian thing.
2) It was stated several times that "Marriage is a gift of God". If this is true, then gay people are also a gift of God, why is it they are persecuted by the church now? (And yes, this is persecution)
3) As Wyden said, it's hard to believe it's 2004 and this is still an issue, but to add more to this, I find it even harder to believe that when there are gay men in the Vatican, in the head of the Catholic church, they are still persecuted against.
4) With regards to rearing children. I know so many people that have been raised in abusive families, I have worked and volunteered in places that have been there to help rehabilitate these people from such ordeals. I also know several gay couples, and I can tell you right now that if I had a child and something happened to me, the gay couples would be right at the top of the list with regards to who I would trust the raising of my child to.
It shouldn't matter if it's two fathers, two mothers, hell it shouldn't matter if a child is raised by six of either, as long as it's a child who's loved and cherished, then it will have a much better upbringing than a lot of children raised in a 'normal' family.
Someone mentioned earlier (I think Sier) that if they were raised by same-sex parents, and lacked the father or mother figure, then they sure as hell wouldn't have turned out how they are now. I entirely agree with that statement, you would be completely different. So what? Who's to say it would be better or worse?
For a church that's supposedly about loving and nurturing people, I cannot even begin to imagine why it is they have a problem with same-sex couples when they are quite often the most loving people you'll ever meet. (One can only presume that's because they have to deal with this type of crap on a regular basis, and still come out smiling)
Dol
Well, I was taught that sin was sin, there are no degrees of a sin being more or less severe in Gods eyes. For those who don't believe in God of course, this does not really apply to them much.
With this in mind, it's stated in the bible that homosexuality is a sin. Now you can argue, you can yell and complain that its not fair, but it's stated nevertheless. Because of this, and the fact that all sins are equal, I do put it in the same category as murderers, robers, ect.. The only reason why people support this sin however, is because there is no second party that gets hurt. For this reason, people think its ok to get away with. The same way goes for little white lies.
When you say what is sin and what isn't sin, I suggest you take a more plausible approach and look it up. For those of you reading this you're probably thinking "Woa dude you are discriminatory!"..well I have had friends who were gay and they do seem like ok people, I'm not going to run into the streets pointing fingers because someone told a little white lie either. I really do not think it's right though.
In response to one of the comments saying that there needs to be a new interpretation of the bible, how so? Do you expect God to jump down and write a whole new bible just to make us feel better? And since when does anyone tell someone who knows everything that they're out of date? If you're a Christian shouldn't you be a bit more trusting in Gods wisdom? Most religious people consider that insulting.
Now that I've probably stepped on a few toes and some people are jumping to the reply button, keep this in mind. Any preacher who encourages any sin, probably hasn't read a single book of the bible anyways. He's probably the type of guy who does the happy feel good sermons every sunday to get money in the trays, when in fact the truth sometimes hurts. I'm not about to spam this forum with all the homosexuality scriptures, but if you want copies PM me and I'll get them to you if you're curious about it and think I'm blowing this outta my mouth without thinking.
I promise you that christians won't get bent out of shape with gay people living or whatever with each other. But when the spiritual concept of marriage is violated yea, people are going to get bent out of shape and thats what's happening now. I suggest you put a different title on gay marriages, and don't refer to a priest if you want to do this sort of thing.
Are you saying your church requires its congregants to adhere to Levitical law? I doubt this is the case.Quote:
Originally posted by Sier
Well, I was taught that sin was sin, there are no degrees of a sin being more or less severe in Gods eyes. For those who don't believe in God of course, this does not really apply to them much.
Even if it does, I hope you don't really believe that the 99.99% of Christian Churches that do NOT follow every single tenant of the Biblical canon are all LYING when they claim to believe in God.
There is great diversity within the Christian community. Perhaps you should reread your post and rephrase those parts of it that seem to put down all non-fundamentalist Christians.
Although I disagree with much of your faith, I do respect it, and I imagine many Christians who, like me, do not share an affinity with the Religious Right, nonetheless respect the faith of those who do.
I hope you can say the same about those Christians like me who have more of an affinity with the Religious Left:)
http://www.ozyandmillie.net/2003/om20031009.html
Perfectly work safe, and cute to boot.
The largest problem with any religious based argument in a logical society is that nothing in any one book can be held as fact. In -your- bible, God may have created marriage as a gift for a man and a woman, but in the bible of your neighbor from down the street, God may have created marriage as a gift between a human and an aardvark. Religion is such a personal thing open to so many interpretations that to convince anyone from outside of your religion that your religion's views are correct, you're going to have to damn near convert them first.
Really though, wasn't there evidence of God saying that he knew times would change? "What you make law on Earth, I will do so in Heaven" or whatever, to paraphrase it.
Although I loathe political correctness with a good deal of my being, since I find it rather foolish to get upset over a word being used when you know the meaning is something else, I do feel it would ease alot of tension to just call homosexual marriages "unions." If they get their union performed by a Christian priest, they can call it a marriage. If they get it performed by some pagan authority, they can call it whatever that group calls it. If they get married under the church of Scientology, they can call it a Hubbardry. If it's done by the Church of the Subgenius, they can call it a Slack-bond, whatever. This is about a legal document stating that these two people wish to spend their lives together and share all they have. Your god, my god, and cthulu's god have nothing to do with it.
Uh..dude you realize that verse fits in to a chapter that tells Jewish people not to eat unclean meat like pork and fish right? That cartoon is pretty offkey and they clipped out a verse from the middle of a long discussion so it wouldn't make sense.