Gay Marriages

Yes. The idea of letting religious beliefs influence the legality of marriage is absurd. It would be impossible to realistically apply all of the different restrictions of every different faith. Nobody could be legally married if we took that approach. So, unless the government favors some faiths above others (an undeniable violation of the principle of separation of church and state), religious argument is irrelevant.

So the only point the opposition really has is that the majority (potentially) believe that gay marriage should be illegal. To me the idea of majority rule seems inherently corrupt and fundamentally flawed to the point of being untenable. But even if we accept that idea, it comes down to more of a technical issue with regards to this specific situation than a point against gay marriage itself. And it also assumes that the majority <i>is</i> against gay marriage, which is a questionable assumption at best.

I'm from Holland and gay marriages are already legal here. Two of my guy pals got married about half a year ago and it was great. I've known these guys for ages and they're a great couple. I luvs weddins and they're the first of my friends to get married so yeah, I'm kinda biased.

Anyway, I fully support gay marriages. If the love of my life turns out to be a woman, I'll certainly want to make it official, no different from what I'd want if it was man. For me, it's love that matters, not sex.

Personally, I think it's sad that we're damn near in 2004 and this is an issue. If two guys or gals want to get hitched and there's a clergy-type person who will do it, so be it.

Church and state are supposed to be separate and frankly there's more important things that the state governments need to be dealing with.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Kianier
That's where we happen to disagree... I'm not saying homosexuals are "bad" people or anything, I have quite a few friends that are homosexual, all I'm saying is God created marriage for man and woman, so therefore it should stay man and woman. If two men want to get together that's fine, just don't call it marriage because a "true marriage" *is* between a man and a woman.

Kian

---

There is holy matrimony and lawful matrimony.

Do you feel that the justice of the peace can bond two same sex people together in a way that has nothing to do with God?

A very close family friend is a lesbian. I have had multiple conversations with her on the topic of being gay and the thing that she said that sticks out the most in my mind is when she said, "Being gay is such a tiny percentage of who I am"

I think about my own life and try to think of what stuff I do or like or believe has to do with my heterosexuality.

Other than who I am intimate with, I cannot think of a single thing that is related to my sexuality.

I can't see any reason why gay people can't be married and have to pay the marraige penalty when they do their taxes or buy a house together or claim one as a dependant or do anything else that families do.

Family is what you make of it. I don't think the government should be able to decide for you.

Okay, I think the issue here with regards to marriage between same sex couples is definitely with regards to religious beliefs. What I think people need to understand, especially those that believe marriage is a gift of God, is that marriage has nothing to do with religion. I am quite sure many people are sitting there now thinking "Yes it does, it has to" or whatever, but truly, it doesn't. The only link between marriage and religion is that a priest is someone who is able to wed a couple.

The speech regarding holy matrimony, talking about the marriage being sanctified by the church etcetera, that's added in at the church/couples discretion.

A marriage is the 'legal' union between two people. It is not in any way shape or form a religious union.

As was previously stated, the church should have NO impact whatsoever on the laws of a country, though I feel this is primarily an issue in the USA due to the 85% christian majority of population, and feel this will cause it to continue to be. I'm not saying all christians are against the idea, just that the church in general seems to stand opposed to it.

However, there is absolutely no viable reason for a same sex couple to not be allowed by law to wed, they are allowed to be in a relationship, to live together, to be DeFacto with one another, to sleep with one another, what is the law to stand in the way of them being allowed to marry one another?!

Thankyou very much, Vote 1 Dolencion.

Dol

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Enosekel
Marriage is an institution invented by men and sanctioned by most organized religions, each of which applies their own rules and taboos to marriage.

---

Actually... "marriage" was invented and given by God and not by man... it's in the Bible... if you're not Christain then you don't agree, but this is coming from the Christain perspective.

Kian

This is an issue that will probably never have a right and wrong, and the worst part is... there really can't be a compromise. I can definitely see the merits of both sides, but since I'm not gay, I prefer to err on the side of conservatism.

Don't get me wrong here, I believe gays should have equal rights, and no discrimination. The main problem I have is with the social aspect of marriage, and what the purpose of it is.

Not being an overtly religious man, I don't follow the precepts of "God's Will", and other such things, but I do believe marriage serves a very distinct purpose in society, and that is to provide a stable environment to rear children. Children born out of wedlock have a higher tendancy to have their parent seperate than those born to married couples. That being said, there is no point for gays to marry, since they cannot have children (in the literal sense).

I don't believe it's fair to give up the sanctity and seriousness of marriage to gays so their rights are equal, but I'm sure if you're gay, you would not at all see it that way, which is understandable. Wanting to be married for the sake of being able to get health insurance like your other married co-workers, whom you have the equal rights of is not a legit cause. I pick health insurance, simply because it's an example of a benefit of marriage that people take for granted. I'm not trying to say gays are materialistic like this, but what I am saying is that the sanctity of marriage for the purpose of binding two people together for the reason of raising a family is not served by allowing gays to do this.

Now that I write all this, I really feel bad because I sound like a gay-basher, or uncaring for these peoples' rights. That is not at all the case. Just to give insight, I don't believe marriage is important enough myself (having been married for 4 years, and now living with my girlfriend of 4 years), until that time in which we will start a family together. I just believe marriage is a socialogical tool to hold back the moral decay of society, and thus it must have sanctity to be able to do so.

Well, it depends how you define marriage actually. Theres legal marriage and religious type marriages. You don't have to have a priest to get married. Also keep in mind priests use bible scripture and spirituality, also mentioning God most times.

If you're going to use a priest..well theres alot of passages in the bible against homosexuality, and the way most rulebooks go, you can't just ignore one rule and live by the others. Think of how football would be like if you took out a major rule, just because you wanted to? Would people settle for that? Same way here.

As for legal marriages..I don't see why not but I doubt churches will recognize them as far as Christianity goes. It's just that there's no scriptural authority for it, so don't use a priest eh?

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Sebboe
There is holy matrimony and lawful matrimony.

Do you feel that the justice of the peace can bond two same sex people together in a way that has nothing to do with God?

---

Yes, there is holy matrimony and lawful matrimony... and who gave us both of these.... God? God says in the bible, Marriage is between man and woman... no man/man not woman/woman. Now there is nothing wrong with a man/man - woman/woman being together and living together and all that, that's fine and if they find happiness with eachother then that's GREAT! But to actually call it marriage, whether it is lawful or holy... either way it's marriage.

On a side note though this conversation can probably go on forever...

Kian